I dont believe they were pinned in that era. It used to be a standard piece of gear for anyone, including backpackers, who was a serious outdoorsman and wilderness adventurers back in the 1970s and 1980s, before the Rambo movies made popular the Rambo-type survival knife. JavaScript is disabled. Since the manufacturers maintained it themselves, its a reasonably accurate way to tell the era that a knife came from. Many thanks! by Colonel666 Mon May 27, 2013 2:59 am, Post Thus, this knife became obsolete for its original intended use when the majority of military aircraft incorporated composite materials. Very nice! Late 1944 production through till contracts were completed or cancelled in 1945, you find those knives more alike or much more similar characteristics. I find no marks on it but it was well used with rust stains. Its total length is 292mm (11 5/8 inches). Frank reports that Marbles was supplying the Ideal to the Government as early as 1934. can be found quite regularly at just about any gun or knife show. The company manufactured Camillus branded knives and was a prolific contractor for other knife brands up until its last days in 2007 when the company filed for bankruptcy. Its nice to come across a blog every once in a while that isnt the same old rehashed material. Powered by Invision Community, US MILITARIA FORUM - COLLECTORS PRESERVING HISTORY. I had suspected that was the case but did not have any evidence. OK, but I did not see any knife with this tang stamp before 1989. It has two blades; one is a standard 2.5-inch cutting blade and the other is a locking. Here is the basic history of this knife. I also have the original sheath though the front pocket and stone have disappeared. factory or used by them. There is a mix of lower and uppercase letters; Short and curved false edge (as opposed to the long sweeping false edge of the WWII knife), Scabbards are marked with Eagle, Globe and Anchor. . From DIY approaches to unconventional models and even taking the knife to experts, one of these methods will get you a proper timeline of your knife. The Camillus Cutlery Company was one of the oldest knife manufacturers in the United States with roots dating back to 1876. This does not impact the price of the item youre buying and it supports me to keep creating the content that you love. Since Camillus is highlighted here, the bright blades were the initial production knives. We can go down the list for all the contractors. I would classify them as USAAF knives. From the picture you can see that the length of the hilts are different. of Tom Williams, Camillus factory historian, I have assembled the Today, heres all you need to know about dating your ka-bar knife as effectively as possible. The first bullet point was in an initial version of the article. Thus, the current standards, methods, and procedures were not necessarily applicable to the procurement process that brought this knife into existence. Otherwise, it would be much easier to go through their files to find out which Ka-bar knives were made when. In this early production from the spring of 1943 through to the middle of 1944 is where you'll find all the variables or variations with in the Mark 1 knives. Buying via the links on CutsandCarves could earn us a commission on the sale. Any Further Details or assistance is greatly appreciated. The WW II era knife has a long sweeping false edge while the current Some of the best knives that we know today either came before any of the World Wars or were made because of one or both of those wars. For some reason or other I always thought the bright, lack of USN, Camillus blades were a late production, or post war variation. Thanks! the markings are all the same and in the same place as the originals. With the help The Air Force Survival Knife was introduced to the commercial market by Marble after not being awarded the DoD contract to supply the new survival knife to the military. with their design. No matter the reason for wanting to date that blade, these methods will get you an accurate year or an era, at worst. Woolworths, S3388: When the Marines formed the ParaMarines they needed a My name is Steve and i live in Australia..I have recently started collecting knives from the Vietnam era..I just purchased 1 on ebay but the more i try to confirm the sellers claim the more i become frustrated and confusedplease help me. I have one but cant find anything about it. Q30: WW II Prototype made for the 6 inch Hunting knife Hoping to try and date them but I am finding conflicting information. This is the early AAC If you, Read More How to Date a Kissing Crane Knife (Both Old and New)Continue, Barlow knives are considered by some knife collectors to be up there with the 1918 trench knife. At a time like this, when not all dealers can be trusted, you need to be on guard. Contact the Ontario Knife Company. Mine is an old C make still kept in my truck. Probably not a Pro-Tec pointed dagger, but it's real novel. It may add to your history file. 5665: Early 12/29/1939 prototype of the new Camillus design Hi John, Just looks cute. I'm just not in possession of good references to documentation that would support my opinion yet. Where neither is possible, its best to stay away. large bakelite pommel and multiple spacers. Valor is the name of the US company that retailed the 998. The holes in the hand guard were used to tie the knife to the scabbard which was in turn then tied to the knife pouch or survival vest. These are the true originals that went to the war and every other one after that was made after the war. with the government to sell the design and know how to make the knife. Great knife for camping or scouting I carried mine on walks in the woods. Knives made by top companies were featured in catalogs that were either internally maintained or sent out to dealers and collectors. The gray painted Pommel indicates that it is issued to the Navy. If you, Read More How to Date a Kissing Crane Knife (Both Old and New)Continue, Some of the best knives that we know today either came before any of the World Wars or were made because of one or both of those wars. You can jump to the following sections if youre in a hurry, but I would advise that you dont skip this part. Fortunately for us, Camillus changed their stamps enough to map each one to different periods. - Knives That Make the Cut, Why this Air Force blade is a workhorse of military survival knives | AI WAR NEWS, Why this Air Force blade is a workhorse of military survival knives Armed Forces Connect, Ontario Knife Company 499 Air Force Survival Knife (Review) 2022 Veteran Headlines, The 12 Most Common Items in A Survival Kit, Top 10 U.S. Military Gear For Backpackers. S-6708 RW marked Guardless fish knife stamped Krome Plate, I believe the two holes in the blade guard was to dummy cord the knife. Thanks for taking the time to read. M4 Bayonet Production Aerial Cutlery Company: 91,898 Camillus Cutlery Company: 332,698 W.R. Case & Sons Cutlery Co.: 224,764 Imperial Knife Company: 917,894 Kinfolks, Inc: 119,702 Pal Blade Company: 268,000 Utica Cutlery Company: 515,000 But if its an Asian imitation then its hard to determine when it was made. The leather will be treated with para-nitrophenol fungicide. [emailprotected], Thanks for letting me know that, Murphy. Here are some ways to identify a fake Camillus knife: If youre in the market for a vintage Camillus knife, make sure you know how to tell the real deal apart from the repros. and the empty draws. Bear7, For a better experience, please enable JavaScript in your browser before proceeding. I have several good photos of the knife which Id be happy to forward but there doesnt seem to be a way to send them to you on this site. We were rightfully concerned with losing our knife if we had to ditch over water. After camillus used up their remaining supply of dated pommels Camillus started using the tang stamping again on the blades. camillus knife identification. The one I have comes with a green pouch that went on the vest and the leather sheath was sewn into the pouch. The bolt end of the handle is unmarked. Above that it simply says "Army Air Forces". Look at these two knives in the photo below. and special units so many time we almost gave up the argument on the subject. The rarest USMC knife in The problem with the drawing in Cole's III is there is no description of the finish or lack of one on the knife pictured, and as you said the parkerized ones have been very hard to come across. 5679 L36: WW II Army Air Corps knife. Camillus Cutlery Company won the contract and made the first production run on Jan. 27, 1943. December 15, 2017 in EDGED WEAPONS. Both marked CAMILLUS over N.Y. but the one on the left the font is larger. However, there is not enough information in the literature to determine with certainty the purpose of the holes. with steel domed rivets. together at the same time. We place the WW II era Model number 5686. The genesis of the Air Force Survival Knife goes back to the 1950s at the dawn of the jet age. The bit telltale difference is the sharpened false Co., Olean N.Y.Straight lineNilFrom 1909Union Cut. Kent Stagged Rosewood with steel rivets, same as above. Another unmarked Prototype hunter with stagged Rosewoods But so many times the answer can be quite complicated. If you have some method to receive photos, let me know and Ill forward the photos. I may be wrong but it may have been produced between 1970-1990, maybe in Asia. You can send them to my email: majorhykr@gmail.com. factory collection. Challenges of Dating a Ka-Bar knife properly, Multiple Methods to Dating a Ka-bar Knife, Method #1 Identify the Logo/ Tang Stamp, Stainless Steel; or UNION CUT CO. & OLEAN, N. Y, The stamp font is thin and shallow, compared to the non-WW2 options, The blade has a darker patina rather than being powder coated, WW2 knife pommels are peened on the knife, not pinned. This is an early Marbles design with a One of the challenges in dating a ka-bar knife that I mentioned above is the loss of original catalogs which these knives were sold with. USMC next to the current repro which graphically shows the difference. This happens in so many cases, utilizing the already fabricated material until exhausted then make the change. Leather washers handle with a heavy round pommel and slightly curved guard; all parts are perfectly tight with no play. Camillus stagged bone grips with brass pins. Its width is 21.8mm (21.8mm) and thickness is 4.5mm (4.5mm). I apologize for the delay in responding to your question. This knife looks a lot http://usmilitaryknives.com/knife_knotes_7.htm. and took them with me when the auction was over. existence. Most folks don't know Go to their site and select the brand name Ontario, (they are the current supplier for these knives), on that page select sheaths, the one your looking for is on the second page, its marked to fit the model 499 knife, (Ontario's part number). Wonderful read! This initial fabrication met the basic outlined requirements what the Navy wanted, with the approval of the drawing, we then begin to see the application of the applied property marks which are simply USN on the ricasso. The TL-29 electrician's knife was originally an issue item manufactured by the Camillus Cutlery Company. So far I have not found the S card for knife for training and issue. The USMC solicited bids from several knife Bruce Mergele, QMC, USNR-Retired. the font is a bit off but hard to tell apart if you do not have the two There are many variables to take into consideration and a general genealogy of dating can be made with Mark 1 knives. For a company that produced such a knife that seemed in high demand, they must have been poor at the business management side of things. Each contractor had their personal signatures, better described as authorized deviations. After the completion of testing and bidding competition between Marble, Camillus Cutlery, and the Ontario Knife Company (OKC), Camillus was awarded the contract to supply the new Jet Pilot Survival Knife (JPSK) to the Department of Defense instead of Marble. The handle should fold out to cover the entire blade edge. To comply with the new corrosion resistant treatment, they then began treating their blades. In 1957, the Marble-Arms Corporation submitted to the U.S. government a design based on their Ideal Hunting Knife design. It was in a jungle behind Officers housing on a Navy base, sealed inside an ammo can with some other items. This site uses cookies to help personalise content, tailor your experience and to keep you logged in if you register. The others that I've seen have the later arched tang stamp. The design features for this knife came about through various inputs from servicemembers, survivability researchers, and training developers. Has can openers, awl, driver. Stagged Rosewood, CR guard and steel domed rivets but with a different grind from above. Tom said that the Government contract was cancelled in 1984. No date or manufacturer is stamped anywhere. They were also overridden by poor management decisions, culminating in a six-month workers strike in 2007. So, as far as I can tell the best evidence indicates that these were Army Air Force knives and not Navy knives. Never knew that opinions could be this varied. Finally, the knives I had would not hold a decent edge but may have had a sufficient edge in a land survival situation. This is the factory reference Can you say more about how Ontario played a role in the Survival Knifes evolution ? S-5382 Half guard prototype with scaler back and 3 small If you dont find your stamp and logo from there, use the official stamp/ logo guide from the official Ka-bar website as seen below: There is a lot that you can tell about the Ka-bar knife from the markings on the blade. Rosewood and steel domed rivets. If you check the pommel (end of the handle) under magnification, you may see a year stamp. like the original and with a little bit of use can be made to look old real You have a very scarce Camillus MARK 1. For all that good, though, some bad actors have learned how to make fake Camillus knives and pass them off as vintage. Not an easy knife to resharpen and the very tip was prone to breaking off. If you look closely at it the tang stamp is for an early example of that fullered blade, and so far is the only example of one with this style hilt that I've run across. Any Camillus produced the Jet Pilot Survival Knife with a 5-inch blade from 1961-2006. There are also extensive catalogs on the knife brand, making my work easier. I have sent you an email to see how I may be able to help. Camillus stagged bone grips with brass pins. The Leather washers may have been replaced with the black ones. Most of the knives shown I have factory documentation on from the Thanks for the info major. In all other ways, it totally resembles the pilots survival knife distributed to the military in the 1950s. It doesn't get any better then this S-449 A and S-449B Prototype Hunting Knives with different Need help identifying camillus knife Riley12 Apr 16, 2014 Riley12 Guide Joined Jun 27, 2013 Messages 1,053 Likes 263 Location Florida Apr 16, 2014 #1 I bought this knife today, and was told it's a naval survival knife, because of the blue in the bottom, but it doesn't look like the naval survival knives. Enjoy and See you on the trail! Held off rust well, and it is pretty solid. Those who do not currently own one should purchase one. This is usually where I first look at when dating knives. and it's variations check out Gary Cunningham's Bayonet Points # 8 right here Bayo Points 8 They are the same size which is the size of a Mark I or Jet Fighter Pilot Knife. The Camillus Cutlery company closed shop in 2007, only to be resurrected in 2009 by Acme United Corporation, which acquired the naming rights. It is the SP 2, Survival Knife. A Short History of the U. S. Army M-1950 Lensatic Compass Major Hykr, Knife Survival System: The Ka-Bar Becker Champion BK2 Major Hykr, 3 Outstanding Survival Knives For Backpackers Major Hykr, Air Force S u r v i v a l K n i f e | norsedefense, Top 10 U.S. Military Gear For Backpackers Major Hykr, The Stories Behind 7 Infamous U.S. Military Knives | Fishing, https://prc68.com/I/OneManLifeRaft.html#Knife, Best Survival Knife of 2022: Dont Hit The Trail Without It! blade and solid spun rivets for the military. by Colonel666 Wed May 29, 2013 10:48 pm, Post There were of course Marines stationed on the base. The only way to stay in the knife business and keep running a profit was to start making and selling them domestically. HiI'm new to the site and am trying to identify a knife my daughter found yesterday. I sent some pictures I have of mine, Major. One of the tasks that this knife was designed to accomplish was helping pilots and aircrews egress their downed aircraft or to help first responders extract them from their downed aircraft. Suggestions, Questions, Comments, Concerns, Alerts, Etc Member Store Tips, Tricks & Instructions, Camillus Pilot Survival Knives [long or short], Re: Camillus Pilot Survival Knives [long or short]. The one on the right pommel nut and screw are brass. Due to the change in ownership of the brand, and the fact that we have some information on what the changes happened, we can use the tang stamps to know when the knife was made. brass rivets, Another Kent with stagged bone and small brass domed If there is anything else you want to know which I missed, do let me know in the comments section or reach out via the contact page. I cant glean a date of manufacture from the stamp. We have been told these knives were carried by various elite PS If you buy the knife today, the seller might include a newer sheath just to promote better knife safety for you. That doesn't make it right, it just makes it how they were found from poor They did not adopt this knife, as we know the M3 was Seems vagrant has an orange handled knife with a small blade protruding from it on picture #79. by glennbad Mon Jun 03, 2013 12:48 am, Post Im interested in finding out about what I believe is not a USAF Pilot Survival Knife, but may in fact be an Asian made imitation. Camillus knives may contain one to six individual blades, knife use caution when opening them. 5665 J68: Unknown so far, unable to find the S card the This was one they wanted to make but never did. Well I got my first one from and Army Helicopter pilot in Germany 1963. If you have also been stuck on how to date a Kabar knife properly before you landed on this piece, I believe you must have all the information you need right now. While some other companies have taken over the design and started to make modern versions, there is simply nothing like the older units that first came out under the original Klaas company. I know they were all built to US Government Standards, but was there any difference in the performance of the knives issued. knives under boxes and paperwork. Today, its time to date the Cattaraugus knife to a specific era and see what beauty you have, Read More How to Date a Cattaraugus Knife (5 Methods Explained)Continue, I have written different guides on how to date different knives to a specific era but this one is different. current model. However, the business was bought by the Brown family in 1902, who then moved the company out to Olean NY instead by 1910. Surplus stores will purchase them in bulk through U.S. Government auctions, collectors will buy them at auctions, military museums will display them, and they will continue to be available for purchase on the internet. Dustin- Great information! that when Camillus got the bid for the Jet Pilot Knife Marbles made a deal While no one retailer has all the original catalogs anymore, some kept some of these books around. I believe youre more interested in dating the vintage ones, though, so the other era guides on that list are best suited to your needs. Washers may have been produced between 1970-1990, maybe in Asia US MILITARIA FORUM - COLLECTORS PRESERVING.! Design and know how to make the knife business and keep running a profit to... Knife into existence of dated pommels Camillus started using the tang stamping on... To help personalise content, tailor your experience and to keep creating content! Then make the knife brand, making my work easier tom said that length... Authorized deviations, Just looks cute the only way to tell the era that a came... The markings are all the same old rehashed material price of the Force! Corrosion resistant treatment, they then began treating their blades the current repro which graphically shows the difference and. When not all dealers can be quite complicated, unable to find the s card the this was one the! Air Corps knife, for a better experience, please enable JavaScript in camillus knife identification browser proceeding... The price of the oldest knife manufacturers in the woods the 998 can to. Oldest knife manufacturers in the Survival Knifes evolution have learned how to make the knife 11 inches. # x27 ; s real novel number 5686 different grind from above, knife use caution when them! Applicable to the military in the Survival Knifes evolution picture you can send to! That you love breaking off Helicopter Pilot in Germany 1963 genesis of the knives I had would not a... Name of the handle ) under magnification, you need to be on guard inside ammo... Or much more similar characteristics were featured in catalogs that were either internally or. This tang stamp camillus knife identification was over you check the pommel ( end of the Air Force knife! In 2007 would not hold a decent edge but may have been produced between 1970-1990, maybe in Asia knife. Far I have sent you an email to see how I may be wrong but it was in initial... Find no marks on it but it was in a land Survival situation experience and keep! And thickness is 4.5mm ( 4.5mm ) the knife up their remaining supply of pommels. Are the true originals that went to the 1950s not enough information in the performance of Air! N.Y.Straight lineNilFrom 1909Union Cut the originals look at when dating knives your experience and to keep you logged in you... Were the initial production knives rightfully concerned with losing our knife if we had to ditch water. Steel rivets, same as above was prone to breaking off is 21.8mm ( )... Brand, making my work easier a year stamp extensive catalogs on the sale I first look when. Caution when opening them left the font is larger won the contract and made the first bullet point in!, unable to find the s card for knife for camping or scouting I carried mine on walks the! It was in a while that isnt the same place as the originals the! You have some method to receive photos, let me know and Ill forward the photos far I have documentation! Come across a blog every once in a hurry, but was any... Navy knives hilts are different L36: WW II era Model number.! Inches ) any difference in the Survival Knifes evolution a heavy round pommel and curved. Pm, Post there were of course Marines stationed on the right pommel nut and screw brass... The contract and made the first bullet point was in a six-month workers strike in 2007 Navy,... Photo below Corporation submitted to the site and am trying to identify a knife came about through inputs. Poor management decisions, culminating in a while that isnt the same place as the.! This was one of the new corrosion resistant treatment, they then began treating their blades is... Dagger, but I am finding conflicting information were either internally maintained or sent to. To breaking off it & # x27 ; s real novel be trusted, find... Skip this part an email to see how I may be able to help at two... Cover the entire blade edge do not currently own one should purchase one new corrosion resistant treatment, they began! On it but it camillus knife identification have had a sufficient edge in a six-month workers strike in 2007 the procurement that! Opinion yet have of mine, major caution when opening them from above was made after the.. Could earn US a commission on the blades cancelled in 1984 were of Marines. Would not hold a decent edge but may have been replaced with the ones. With steel rivets, same as above cases, utilizing the already fabricated material until exhausted then the! Off rust well, and it is pretty solid knife business and keep running a profit was start! To determine with certainty the purpose of the new corrosion resistant treatment, they then began treating their blades how... I have of mine, major to dealers and COLLECTORS are all the same place as originals... Or much more similar characteristics enable JavaScript in your browser before proceeding one after that was made the! Government a design based on their Ideal Hunting knife Hoping to try and them! Breaking off wanted to make fake Camillus knives may contain one to individual... And training developers documentation on from the picture you can send them to email! Across a blog every once in a six-month workers strike in 2007 the era that a knife my found. And slightly curved guard ; all parts are perfectly tight with no.... Down the list for all that good, though, some bad actors have learned how make! The change says `` Army Air Force knives and not Navy knives methods, and it is to. Strike in 2007 ) under magnification, you may see a year.. Caution when opening them have any evidence make but never did my work easier opinion. About it one I have not found the s card the this was they... When opening them down the list for all that good, though some... Good references to documentation that would support my opinion yet all other ways, it totally resembles the pilots knife. Dealers can be trusted, you may see a year stamp here, the current standards, but there... Jan. 27, 1943 we had to ditch over water they then began treating their blades concerned with our... Not currently own one should purchase one q30: WW II Prototype made for the delay in to. Since the manufacturers maintained it themselves, its a reasonably accurate way to tell the best evidence indicates these... Officers housing on a Navy base, sealed inside an ammo can with some other items had personal..., tailor your experience and to keep creating the content that you dont skip this part 'm! Tl-29 electrician & # x27 ; s real novel times the answer can be trusted, you find knives! Sent out to dealers and COLLECTORS different periods Pilot in Germany 1963 stay the... Sealed inside an ammo can with some other items the subject, unable to find the s card this... The tang stamping again on the subject a hurry, but it was well used with rust stains documentation from... With some other items send them to my email: majorhykr @ gmail.com enough information in the performance the. May contain one to six individual blades, knife use caution when opening them well, it! I 've seen have the later arched tang stamp before 1989 to try and date but! ) under magnification, you may see a year stamp servicemembers, survivability,. Were of course Marines stationed on the left the font is larger is 4.5mm ( 4.5mm ) on right! That era usually where I first look at these two knives in the woods US government,... Knife if we had to ditch over water site and am trying identify. Probably not a Pro-Tec pointed dagger, but was there any difference in the photo below on. Glean a date of manufacture from the picture you can see that the length of the knives issued before.... And Army Helicopter Pilot in Germany 1963 highlighted here, the knives shown I sent. Made the first production run on Jan. 27, 1943 individual blades, knife use caution when opening them ditch! The argument on the knife there is not enough information in the literature determine! Isnt the same old rehashed material and it supports me to keep creating content... Maintained it themselves, its best to stay in the photo below method to receive photos, let know! For a better experience, please enable JavaScript in your browser before.... Cutsandcarves could earn US a commission on the vest and the very tip was to... Fold out to cover the entire blade edge able to help personalise content, tailor your and! Find anything about it Company that retailed the camillus knife identification be able to help production knives knife caution! Were Army Air Corps knife is 21.8mm ( 21.8mm ) and thickness is 4.5mm ( ). Design features for this knife came about through various inputs from servicemembers, survivability,! Certainty the purpose of the new Camillus design Hi John, Just looks cute base... Repro which graphically shows the difference it is issued to the Navy making and selling them.... Fold out to cover the entire blade edge 2013 10:48 pm, Post there were of course Marines on! Site uses cookies to help personalise content, tailor your experience and to keep you logged in if register! Were pinned in that era be trusted, you need to be on guard back to 1876 ditch over.... The 6 inch Hunting knife Hoping to try and date them but I am finding information.
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